The night after the sheriff served his son, Tyler Shaw’s father told the chief to “hold your people accountable for their actions.” A month earlier his mother had told the mayor the question she keeps getting: how she feels about her son’s “civil rights being violated by the police department.” A second resident says the chief is now reviewing the case.
Roy and Debbie Shaw have stood at the council podium on two of the last three meeting nights, under their own names, on the city’s own recordings. On August 25 he asked for an independent review of the department and for the council to decide whether Chief Paul “deserves to be in that position.” She followed him and said the question is not just about Tyler. On September 22, the night after a deputy served their son with a criminal subpoena, he read the police their own motto and asked for discipline. Daniel Soroka, who in June said the chief “lied to the public,” told the same council on Tuesday that he met the chief last week about “the incident that happened with Ben Schneider,” and that within about a week he will be shown “the findings of him reviewing the case.” The preliminary hearing is September 30.
PRIMARY SOURCEthe city’s own recordings of the August 25, September 8 and September 22 council meetings, transcribed in full; every quotation below is verbatim from themPRIMARY SOURCEwho they are: Debbie Shaw, speaking from the same podium directly after Roy Shaw on August 25, said “my son Tyler”; the couple sat with Tyler at the August 11 hearing; a forensic voice comparison across the three recordings puts the same man at the podium on August 25 and September 22, and the same man in the August 11 hallwayCONFIRMEDthe timing: the sheriff received the criminal subpoena for Tyler Shaw on September 18 and served it September 21; the return is hosted here; the council met the next eveningUNRESOLVEDwhat the chief is reviewing, whether any findings will be made public, and the subjects of the three closed sessions on litigation the council has held since August 25
August 25: the father asks whether the chief should keep his job
“My name is Roy Shaw. I am a citizen of American Fork, and at this time I ask independently that you conduct a review, a third party review, of American Fork Police Department based on accountability and leadership.” ... “An independent third party review will help determine all citizens if American Fork has an effective system for identifying, investigating and disciplining substantial misconduct, also whether or not Chief Paul and the department’s leadership have appropriately supervised and disciplined officers when complaints or misconduct have been substantial.” ... “If the review shows systemic failures or inadequate leadership, then I ask the council to take appropriate actions to determine if Chief Paul deserves to be in that position, and or if his department leadership as well, whether maybe they should resign or maybe even be removed from position.” ... “I previously submitted an email request to city council.” ... “I have not received any, uh, any response to that.” ... “If these requests continue to go ignored, that the citizens have a right to contact our local media and have investigators look into it.”
He listed what a review should cover: “records disputes, police interactions and controversial warrants, search warrants, traffic stops and arrests,” and “several federal cases, some of them coming up.” That was the night the council also adopted the property tax increase, cut from 8.48 percent to 5.7 percent, four to one.
August 25: the mother
“My answer is simple. This is not just about Tyler. Our police department has a responsibility to follow the constitution and protect the civil rights of every person in this community.” ... “I have also been shown videos and training records that raise serious questions about our police department. These concerns deserve more than assurances. They deserve a fair, transparent and independent review.” ... “Mayor Frost and Chief Paul, you are the chain of command. Leadership means accountability even when it is uncomfortable.”
She said she was born in American Fork in 1967, that her father served on the city’s recreation committee and the county watershed committee, and that for three months she has been asked the same question: how she feels about her son Tyler’s “civil rights being violated by the police department.” Tyler Shaw is the driver the county’s charging document calls T.S. On September 21 a deputy served him with a criminal subpoena for the September 30 preliminary hearing in State v. Schneider.
September 22: the father, the night after the subpoena
“Good evening, my name is Roy Shaw. I am a resident of American Fork. I’m also a 23-year retiree of the United States Air Force and Security Police. Over the last several months, I’ve had an opportunity to reflect on the actions of our police department, and I realize after reflecting on my career and the actions that you really do do things differently here.” ... “If a member of our team violated this creed, there was disciplinary action, and we weren’t afraid to take that disciplinary action if needed.” ... “Honestly, in the past six months or so, I haven’t seen this from our department, and it’s really saddening to me, especially having that career that I had in the Air Force. My advice is to don’t be afraid to hold your officers accountable and ensure that they display integrity. If it means discipline them, then discipline your officers.” ... “Chief, Mayor, hold your people accountable for their actions and be more transparent with our community.”
He was first on the sign-up list. He read the Air Force Security Police creed in full, the one about wearing “my badge of authority with dignity and restraint,” and set it beside the department’s own words. The department’s page on the city site carries the motto he quoted back to it: “Build Community, Enforce with Equity, Serve with Honor.” The six months he described are the six months this site has been publishing the department’s March record: the stop at a corner with no stop line, with his son at the wheel, and the lieutenant’s calls to the chief during the raid.
He did not say his son’s name, or Schneider’s, or the word subpoena. He spoke about a creed, and about six months.
On August 25 he asked whether the chief deserves his position. On September 22 he read the chief his own motto. He never said his son’s name.
Soroka: from “lied to the public” to “the findings of him reviewing the case”
Daniel Soroka is the accountant who told this council on August 11 that police liability belongs in the tax, and who said on June 9 that the chief “went on… a media release and lied to the public” about the stop, a line this site carried in August. On August 25 he told the council “the actions have left a stain on our public trust with our police department” and asked for “resetting the code, putting in a new body cam, starting a resident review board.” On September 8 he set a clock.
“I could find 12 reviews that were done. These reviews were done by lawyers. They were done by cops. They were done by people who were professional in the field. And every single one of them found issues with the conduct that happened with the American Fork Police Department.” ... “I’ve been coming every two weeks for months now, and there still has not been change.” ... “We’re not asking for the police department to be disbarred. Heavens, no. But we’re asking for accountability.” ... “I would jump up for joy to come here in two weeks and talk about the changes that the city has undergone.” ... “I’ll be here in two weeks and we’ll see what happens.”
Two weeks later he came back.
“Last Wednesday, me and Chief Paul had a meeting regarding the incident that happened with Ben Schneider. And I’m going to be honest. The meeting was very beneficial. There was back-and-forth conversation. And it shows me that the chief is facing in the right direction. And I’m proud to say that. We still need to take steps in that direction, but we’re facing that way. Two weeks ago, I made a commitment that if the city made changes and was transparent, that I would come up and praise them. And that’s what I’m doing right now. We still need to make those steps and things still need to happen. But we’re facing the right direction. The chief has committed to meet with me again in approximately one week to go over the findings of him reviewing the case. And I look forward to that.”
Last Wednesday was September 16. In his account the chief is reviewing the Schneider case himself and will show a resident the findings in about a week, which is the week of the preliminary hearing. This is the same chief who took the lieutenant’s call during the raid: “No forced entry. Five in custody. We’ve got the main target in custody as well.” That July piece set out why the chief’s own hand on this matters. Qualified immunity shields individual officers, not the city, and a policymaker who takes the call in real time and then reviews the case in person is the kind of fact a claim against the city is built on. Whatever the findings say, the chief’s name will be on them. The department has put findings on paper before: the complaint letters the chief signed in Greg Hazard’s case. Hazard, for his part, told the council on September 8 that “Chief Paul is our right guy. He takes ownership.”
Three closed sessions in three meetings
Since August 25 the council has ended every regular meeting downstairs, each time citing “pending or reasonably imminent litigation.” The August 25 and September 8 sessions also cited “the professional character or competence of an individual.” The September 8 session is on the city’s recording as item 10 and is not on the agenda the city posted. The September 22 session was the only change in an amendment posted the afternoon before, and it went ahead over the mayor’s wish to wait for a full council. Across the 36 council agendas the city has posted this year, three list a closed session for litigation: June 9, August 25 and September 22. What a council says in a closed session is not public, and nothing on the record connects any of these to any case.
The fair counterpoint. Roy Shaw did not mention his son on September 22, and his comment stands on its own. His wife named their son on August 25; that he is the father is this site’s identification, from that sequence, the family’s attendance and a voice comparison, not his statement. The review Soroka described is his account of a private meeting; the chief has said nothing public about reviewing the case, and a review is not a finding. Another resident who has complained about the department told the same council the chief “takes ownership.” Closed sessions on litigation are lawful under Utah’s open-meetings act, and their subjects are unknown. The right of reply is open to Chief Paul, the mayor, and the city.
Sources. American Fork City’s recordings: “August 25, 2026 AF City Council Meeting” (Roy Shaw at 6:09, Debbie Shaw at 9:05, Daniel Soroka at 17:09, the tax vote at 1:00:29, the closed session at 1:13:35); “September 8, 2026 AF City Council Meeting” (Soroka at 12:21, Greg Hazard at 14:05, the closed session at 1:17:40); “September 22, 2026 AF City Council Meeting” (Roy Shaw at 4:13, Soroka at 12:07, the closed session at 59:30), all transcribed in full. The city’s Agenda Center: the amended September 22 agenda dated September 21, the original dated September 18, the September 8 agenda, and the year’s council agendas for the count. The police department’s page on the city site for the motto. This site’s earlier reporting: the August 11 hearing, “Stop shielding the AFPD”, the chief’s findings letters, the stop sign, the raid calls, and the subpoena and the September 30 hearing. The voice comparison used forensic automatic speaker recognition on the public recordings; the family appeared voluntarily at public meetings and on a public stream. The right of reply is open to everyone named here.